Transformative Sales Strategies: The Power of Personal Connection

Sasha: 0:00

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Kathy: 5:07

Well thank you so much Sasha I'm so happy to be here. I don't know if you heard me kind of chuckle when you were talking about how so many people hate sales, you know, that's like an arrow piercing my heart.

Sasha: 5:23

I'm one of those people for as much as I know how important it is, and I think I blame a lot of it on my introvertness. I don't like to be pushy. I don't like to come off as salesy and ...there is a difference between being salesy and like being good at sales. I don't think you necessarily have to be salesy to be a good salesperson, I just I have yet to find a way that I particularly like solid. And so I'm interested to learn, particularly you, you have these four types of sales. So I want to learn more about that. But I'm just interested to know and how you have managed to sell close to a billion dollars of anything, because that just means you're really good at sales.

Kathy: 6:13

Well, I hope I am. But, you know, it's kind of interesting, because you said that you're an introvert. And I'm also an introvert. Most people would never really know that. But I can be painfully shy. But I think selling is for absolutely everyone. And everyone, I don't think there's a person on the face of this earth, unless it's like somebody that is, I would say, like a monk or something that probably doesn't sell every single day. So I just want to give you an example. So for those of you out there in the audience that maybe have a spouse, or kids, significant other, and you want them to do something in that day, like clean up their room, or take the trash out, or whatever it is, when you are approaching them and asking them to do that, in essence, you are selling them that that's the right thing to do.

Sasha: 7:17

I don't think people look at it like that. I would say that's like the art of persuasion, which I guess, sales, but

Kathy: 7:25

Which it is art of persuasion absolutely is involved in the sales process. But I think the thing about sales is you have to reframe it. Because really what sales is, is helping someone reach some sort of transformation, whatever it might be. And I think when you reframe that and think about, you know, the people that you're helping. Actually it's one of my pillars, I call it about face, and it's about face basically means it's about your customer, it's not about you. So for everybody that gets really nervous, or says hey, I can't sell or whatever, you're literally just thinking about yourself. Because you're thinking, Oh, I'm really scared or selling is slimy, or I don't know how to do it. So all those different things, instead of thinking, you know, there's this person that I can really help. I mean, just think about it, it's kind of like if you have a child, and you're teaching them to walk, you're helping them walk, take those few steps. In essence, is the exact same process in sales, is you are helping them, you know, take those first few steps so that they can have a better life. Think about if you had this child, your child and you're like, No, you're gonna stay in bed all day not going to do anything. I don't want you to walk. I don't want you to ride a bike. Well, that's not good, right? It's a little selfish. Well, that, versus if you're like, Hey, okay, you know, walking is really cool. And then you can run and then you could go play with your friends and you can do all these things. You're laying out this future of something that is really cool. That you know, and even just think about a child. I just think about my youngest I video of my youngest. You know, his first few steps. He was laughing, he was so happy. So what happens when you are doing the right thing and you're selling in the right way? You know, your customers are gonna have a smile on their face. They're gonna be happy they get to go to the next step, right? Whatever it is, or this big problem that they have is gone. Or maybe, let's say you're in the travel industry, and you're selling them a cruise or you're selling them a trip to somewhere, think about how excited they're going to be. You know, they're gonna have a big smile on their face. So you're solving that problem, you're getting rid of pain in some shape or form, you're having them get a transformation.

Sasha: 10:10

I'm nodding the entire time that you're saying this, because I think I liked that you kind of flipped it, because I do think most people make salesy sales about them, like, how do I feel about doing it, it makes me uncomfortable. I don't like to, you know, pitch to people, I don't like to talk to people like that. But when you flip it in a way that's like, oh, like, no, like, I can help someone, and this is going to help them achieve xy and z, then you're just kind of helping that person see, like, oh, this is really good for you. Like, let me tell you about why this is a really amazing for you, and that you're gonna love it. And it's going to help you as opposed to how uncomfortable it makes me feel having to tell you all this.

Kathy: 10:55

Right, exactly, exactly. I mean, and I understand because, you know, we're all exposed to sales in some shape, or form all throughout our life. And you can have a really good experience to it. Or you can have a really, really bad experience to it. So then you have these, you know, these emotions that turn into your beliefs about, you know, those experiences. And I had the exact same thing. I actually thought sales was slimy, it was something I didn't want to do, and kind of got dragged into it like kicking and screaming. And the minute I did it, I realized that it wasn't slimy, if you do it in the right way. And it also takes a mindset shift. And that's actually my first pillar is switch your mindset. So my pillars are SALES, imagine that say, you know, and the first one switch your mindset. So it goes from, hey, I can't do this, to flipping and having impostor syndrome and being really scared and everything that comes along with that, anytime you try something new to switching it to absolutely, I can do this, and I'm going to be really good at it. And I'm serving, you know, that's, I think that kind of gets overused a little bit. I'm serving, not selling. But in reality, that's really what you're doing is your serving.

Sasha: 12:25

Yeah, and I mean in sales, the when it comes to the mindset and the imposter syndrome in particular. For me, that's nothing but practice, honestly, I mean, it, can always feel a little uncomfortable. But the more often you do it, the more comfortable you get with your like elevator pitch, essentially how you go about saying the things that you're talking about, you get more familiar with the things you want to point out about what you're selling about, you know why you think this is going to help someone, and then it just makes it easier to have that conversation. So that mindset shift becomes a little bit easier. You know that you can do it, you just have to you just have to practice at doing it. You just have to keep going versus you know, getting stuck in that like, imposter, I can't do this. I don't like to do this. I don't want to do this. I'm not going to do this. You really have to kind of step outside of that comfort zone to do it.

Kathy: 13:22

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, first off the whole thing about the nervousness and being scared to do and all that. It shows that you care. Yeah. You weren't nervous about something, you really don't care. And and then the second thing that you can do to kind of help with the nerves is do something a lot harder than what it is. A friend of mine who I recently had on my podcastt, I also have a podcast called The Professional Rule Breaker. But a friend of mine who I had on recently, he said something that I was like, oh my gosh, that's so great. Do something harder than the thing that you're scared of then thing that you're scared of doesn't seem so hard anymore. Ok like, in my case, it would be karaoke or something like that. area, but if I did karaoke, then a bunch of the other things would seem a lot easier.

Sasha: 14:21

Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. If you push yourself, if you push your limits a little bit, then I think in general, just speaking like whatever we push ourselves, we can surprise ourselves at the things that we are capable of doing. The things that scare us, we can probably push ourselves a lot further past that if we just are willing to just be okay that it scares us and recognize that you know, that is a feeling it's a valid feeling. And you know, there's nothing wrong with being nervous about making that sales pitch or something like that. But that moving past that, and then after you get off the sales call, you're like, oh, I did it like it wasn't that bad. Like, even if the person that said no, even if they, you know, they didn't buy what I was pitching or anything like thatI did it. Like I did my spiel, I sold it. Now I can take what maybe didn't go well this time and do better the next time, I can kind of fix my talking points or something like that. And now I know how to tweak it so that way, the next time I do this, I won't be as nervous. I won't be as scared. I'm a little bit more comfortable with it. And so it should go a little bit better for me. And I think you just keep doing that until it becomes more natural for you.

Kathy: 15:36

Absolutely, there's a saying that is success is like a vitamin. So you know, you take vitamins every day to be stronger or get healthy or whatever. So if you have a little bit of success every single day, it doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be something huge. Like what you said. It doesn't have to be that you close that person. Yeah, maybe your first success is that you picked up the phone, and you call somebody. And then the next day is maybe you pick up the phone, you talk to this person, you ask them questions to try to really find out, you know, they might say I want this, but maybe what it really find out what they need, you know, and then the next day, it's you get a little further every single day. So keep on adding these little bits of success. You know, I always look at it as if you're climbing a, you know, a mountain well, you have to start somewhere and take those steps to get to your end result.

Sasha: 16:36

Yep. Everyone who climbed Mount Everest started at the bottom.They had to do it all one step at a time. So it's okay to go slow. I and I say that all the time. I mean, there's nothing wrong with going slow in in anything that we're doing in our business it is, especially if you're practicing at it, you're getting better at it, you're getting more comfortable at it. It's okay to I mean... I look back at some of my first sales calls. I'm just like, Oh, those were so bad. I know. I was nervous. You know, there's times where I've gotten off of discovery calls and thiink oh, I forgot to like mention this. And that probably would have helped them I didn't even tell them like about the payment plan. And, you know, there's times I've done things like that, but it's just, it's all learning, you know, you get off. And maybe that means I need to like write stuff down when I'm on a discovery call so I remember like what I need to say.

Kathy: 17:31

Let's say you forgot something that gives you an excuse to get back in touch with them.

Sasha: 17:35

Yeah, to follow up on an email or something.

Kathy: 17:37

Absolutely. It's something I call a connection campaign. So like, think about your friends, right? And you keep in touch with them, maybe like you haven't seen them for a while you're gonna go up, give them a hug. Or you might touch them on the shoulder, say, hey, good job, or whatever it is, it's, really the same thing when it comes to marketing, and it comes to sales. It is like those little you're just reaching out to little touch, and just say, hey, man, it was so great talking to you. I realized once I got off the phone, I forgot to talk about the payment plan, you know, or I forgot to ask you about this, or you know, and it gives you an opportunity, you know, have that little touch that.

Sasha: 18:20

And I think people... you use a really good word, that connection. I think people like that because people don't like to be sold to they don't like to feel like you're pitching them. But when you take that extra step it was you know, hey,.. like I've done this before on discovery calls where I always ask like, oh, where are you from? Or, you know, where are you at right now. And I tried to think about something of wherever this person is, like, Oh, I've always wanted to visit there, or I love X, Y and Z about being there. Because it creates that connection with people. And it makes it seem like they're more than just... you're doing more than just trying to get their money, right. You're actually trying to connect with them on a personal level. On a people to people level versus just the transactional level. And that's what people don't like I don'twant to be just another number to you or transaction to you. I want to be a person and so if you can follow via email and point out something like in the call that happened or you know, your cat that walked past you know, I have a I have a black cat myself, like things like that people that sticks out to people. And that, in my opinion makes them more likely to even if they don't close with you, then it makes it more likely that when they do need someone like you that you're the person that they're going to think of because you started to kind of build that connection with them.

Kathy: 19:37

Absolutely. It's being that top of mind being that first person they think of when they have that issue. I mean I did have it was interesting, because not too long ago, I have a client and they ended up being a client of mine but one of the first things they said to me was like, I loved that you did not try to sell me in our very first conversation, and I was like, I was just factfinding. You know, I really wanted to find out because the thing is when you think about it, you know, when you're having a let's say a discovery call, or that first conversation, you need to not only find out, are you, you know, can you provide a solution to that to that person? But are you the right fit? Are they the right fit for you? So, you know, I think that's all part of the discovery. You know, I think that's why the term discovery comes from, and it really should be two sided. And even the sales process, everything about sales, it always should be two sided, it should be a win win for both sides. Anytime you have something that's not equal, if you think of the scales of justice, and you think about, you know, one sides higher than the other side, you know, let's say you're winning, you got, you know, you're charging this cuz I'm just gonna use an example, you're charging this customer a lot of money. And this customer may be just getting so so value. Well, guess what, maybe you got that customer, but they're probably not going to refer you, they're probably not ever going to buy anything from you. But then let's flip it, right. Let's say that the customer was the one that was this giant winner, and you are not. Because maybe you offered a really low price, something like that. Well, maybe they'll give you a bunch of raving reviews, and they love you, but you're gonna be out of business. Yeah. Because you can't afford to do you know,

Sasha: 21:41

I've seen that so many times, where, especially when you're starting out in business, because we all want to make a sale. We all want the money that comes in. So we're willing to just sell to any and everyone and take on whatever client or customer we can get, without asking ourselves, is this the right person for me. And oftentimes, when we don't do that, that's when that person is the problem client. That's when they are expecting more than what what your deliverables might be. Or they're asking for more than what they're paying for. And it just becomes a whole situation, because you haven't you didn't, you know, there were probably red flags. And you didn't say like, I don't think I'm the right person that you should be working with, like you probably better served by someone that's not me or someone else. Or maybe you need this completely different service. And it's not me at all, and you think it's me. But instead you were like, no, this person is willing to give me money. So I'll let them be a client of mine.

Kathy: 22:41

I can't agree with you more. I mean, I think of you know, scenarios where people like exactly what you're saying they're willing to take just about anybody and baby, these people really don't fall into what I would consider to be your hero client or ideal client, there's so many terms for that. But I'm calling it where you can really make a big transformation. And you spend a lot of time because they're just not the right fit. And you're trying to fit them into, like a profile. I mean, think of this as a real easy example. And probably a lot of you, ladies, sorry, guys, but a lot of ladies may relate to this. That if you're going out with somebody, let's say he's a bad boy or something like that, right? And you're like, you can fix him? Well, guess what, when you get a customer that is not in that falls into your ideal client, and I'm gonna say that there aren't people on the periphery, that will be great. But let's just say, I'm just gonna take anybody that pays me this. That's the exact same thing. You end up going, I'm going to fix this client. I'm going to help them I know, I can make them do this. Now. It's never gonna happen. And you are just going to burn yourself out. Yeah, you'll hate it. You're not going to want to do it anymore. And it's going to take an enormous amount of time. So yeah, so that's part of the you know, the about face, it's all about the customer. It's knowing everything about who your ideal customer is. So that not only can you serve them better, but it makes you more efficient.

Sasha: 24:29

Yes. Yeah. Because once you start to figure out and I've talked about, you know, your target audience and your ideal client before on the show, once you really narrow in on who that is, it makes it so much easier to talk to them directly in the sense especially when it comes to selling because you already know what their problems are. You already know what kind of solutions that they're looking for and how you can use the language that works with them in order to, you know, kind of push them a little bit more towards going from potential clients to your actual client, because you just zoned in on them when you're, when you're trying to talk to everyone, especially when you're trying to sell to everyone, in my opinion, you end up selling to no one because you're all over the place, you're like, I know, if I say, if I talk about, you know, being the lowest value that's going to attract this person over here, you know, I'm the cheapest person that's going to check this type of client. If I talk about how expensive I am, then that might be you know, the luxury client over here, who you know, is willing to pay whatever. If I talk about, yes, I'm expensive. But this is everything this is the value that you get from working with this is the time that you get back from working with me, then that's a whole different other client over here. And so you end up confusing all of the people that you're trying to talk to, because you're trying to just sell to anyone as opposed to narrowing in on who you're truly talk talking to.

Kathy: 25:54

Right. Absolutely. And that's I would say, that's a mistake, that not only people that are just starting out in sales, but people that are experience do the exact same thing. Because they start getting a little bit of a tunnel vision. And it's more about dollars, transactions, rather than, you know, reframing it and really making it all about, you know, can you provide that transformation? And you know, the bigger transformation, the better as well.

Sasha: 26:30

Yeah, I mean, I think that also, as our businesses grows to who we talk to also changes. And so how we used to do sales might not work as it used to, it might not work the same way, like whatever, especially if you're going to be busy, you raise your prices, or maybe you change something about your offering or something like that. You have to relearn how to talk about it, how to pitch about it, how to what is that key thing in whatever your spiel is that's going to really resonate with people and actually to, like, close the deal with things like that. So it's always about, this is pretty much all parts of our businesses, but it's always just about learning, refining, relearning, refining, relearning, and then that whole journey is essentially our business journey, the whole time, we have our business.

Kathy: 27:20

Absolutely. And you know, what, there's a, there's a lifecycle to this customer lifecycle. And because they may buy from you for one thing, whatever that might be, but they want to continue buying from you. And there's other things that you can offer. In addition to that, maybe, you know, I'll use an example of, let's say, a course creator. And you start off, and you have a course, that's kind of middle of the road, right? It has some really good value in it. And, but it's not, like if somebody wanted to be an expert in in it, they need more information. So then you can offer, you know, either a, you know, more of a high ticket that has a lot more information in it, or you can offer masterminds or you can offer intensives. You know, there's all sorts of different things that you can offer. And then let's say you start at a high level, let's go at it a different way. Let's say you have a high ticket, and you do great at high ticket, but there's still a lot of people that love what you do, and some day want to get there because they're go getters, right? They, they're like, I want to get there, I want to make a million dollars, I want to do whatever their goals are. But they gotta start somewhere. Then you offer something that maybe is a membership, you know, we're or something that's much lower ticket,

Sasha: 28:53

And you have to sell that completely differently.

Kathy: 28:55

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, you have to sell it completely different. Because it's really important. You have to meet the customer where they are. So a you have to know exactly who your customer is. And then you have to meet them where they are. So if you start talking to them at a level and telling them about things that are just, it's too complicated, that's not going to work for them. If it's too simple, it's not going to work for them. You have to meet them where they are. And you can only do that by really knowing who your customer is.

Sasha: 29:32

Yes, exactly. I you just reiterate everything that I talked about. So I appreciate that because it really.... your business becomes so much easier when you know who you're talking to. When you get the clearer that you can be on who you are targeting, who you want to serve, who your target audience is, it makes so many other things and your business so much easier. Because that's one of the hardest things to figure out in your business is Who exactly you're trying to reach and how to talk to them in the right way. Because once you get that it just sales becomes easier, marketing becomes easier, pitching becomes easier. Figuring out the next product or service that you want to have becomes easier, like all of those other things are easier when you know who it's supposed to be going to.

Kathy: 30:25

Absolutely. Oh my gosh, I mean, it's it's almost like night and day I think part of it is you become very focused. Your mindset shifts? You probably, I would say 99.9% will have more fun at it.

Sasha: 30:43

Yes.

Unknown: 30:46

But I mean, it's like when you have that fun, and you're energized and everything, it sure makes it a heck of a lot easier to get up in the morning and go, Oh my gosh, you know, I got this really great, you know, whatever going on today.

Sasha: 31:00

Andyou like talking to people. I like working with and I serve creative women. I love being in creative industries, I love people who design and who who are artistic and like building businesses that way or, and have figured out how to do it in a digital landscape. So I know that it when I'm having conversations with women who are in those industries, that I'm going to enjoy that conversation. So even when I'm trying to get them to sign up to my group program, or I'm trying to get them into a one on ones with me. It's not salesy for me, because I like what they're doing. And I can speak to what they're doing from a place of my own experience and my own way of being a creative. That's like, oh, I've been there like I know exactly like how you struggle in your business and, and the things that you think about in your business. And so it just makes those, to bring it back to like the sales calls, it makes those easier, because they don't feel as much as work you feel you have fun while you're doing it. You feel like you're getting to know someone while you're doing it. And it just makes the whole conversation on both ends go a lot better, a lot smoother.

Kathy: 32:06

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And you become, in many cases a partner. That's, that's really, I think, the true meaning of sales. I mean, you alluded that, you know, there's different types of sales, the sales that I enjoy, and I love I have termed noble selling. Noble selling is, is when you become a partner in the business, that if you can think about it, you know, there's, it's like a puzzle, and you're trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together. And, and that's really what selling should always be like. And you will never, if you have that approach, in a million years, you will never feel salesy. And it won't happen. And so, you know, that's, the approach and and I'm kind of maybe biased, I think sales will go round, people wouldn't know about products and services without sales, you know, everything would come to a grinding halt, I'm sure it's probably not 100% True but that's how I feel.

Sasha: 33:11

I can understand that point of view. But I liked the idea of of the partnership aspect of it, because I think not only does it make the job of selling easier, but I think that people are more receptive to that. I don't want to come in and, and take something from you, or I'm just going to take your money and you know, give you this. Like, you know, we're gonna be a partner in this transformation that you're going to have whatever that is, whatever, you know, to talk about, like photographers, like, we'll be partners, and I'm going to work with you and your family to you know, transform your holiday photos into beautiful, you know, designs and things like that, that you can send on Christmas cards or whatever. However you phrase it, where you are coming at it in a partnership aspect, it makes it it makes the person that you are selling to feel just as invested as you are in selling to them because they're like, oh, I have someone who's going to help me with this, that it's not just, I'm gonna give money. And then that's it. Like, the transaction is done at that point. It's like no where it's a partnership together. And we're doing this together.

Kathy: 34:25

Absolutely. And you know, the thing is, it doesn't matter if it's all like online, or if it's in person, or if via Zoom or any of that. It still is the same exact process you think about almost like taking somebody by the hand and leading them down a path of the transformation that they're looking for.

Sasha: 34:51

Yep. I love that. I love that. I hope people will take that away that you know, we were talking about sales and how to how to talk to people really think about, just as Kathy said that transformation and how you're going to walk them through to get to that transformation at the end. And it'll probably make your sales calls and sales in general go a lot easier when you approach it from that aspect as, as opposed to just I just need to make some money from someone. And close this deal and book them and I need X amount of dollars at the end of the month. I think when you approach it that way it, it makes it a lot less fun, a lot more daunting and probably a little bit harder on your end when you approach it in that type of way. So, but Kathye, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation. If you want to learn more about Kathy and if you want a free strategy call with her, you can go to theprofessionalrulebreaker.com. She also has an Ultimate Sales Starter Guide , which I will put the link for that, I'll put the link for both of those in the show notes. So Kathy, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. This was a great conversation.

Kathy: 36:00

You're very welcome. I really had fun. Thank you, Sasha.

Sasha: 36:03

Thank you. Happening next week on the strategy for creatives Podcast. I'm talking to Catherine McCourt, a transformational life and business coach about how to find purpose in your business. So make sure you tune in next Tuesday to catch the episode. Thanks for tuning in to the latest episode of the Strategy for Creatives podcast. I hope you enjoyed the insightful discussion, and hopefully found valuable tips that you can put in your business today. If you found the podcast helpful, I'd love it if you take a moment to rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback helps me make a better show and reach more listeners like you. And don't forget to share the podcast with your favorite business owner who could benefit from the strategies and insights I share on the show. New episodes come out every Tuesday, so make sure to subscribe and stay up to date with the latest trends and techniques for growing your creative business. If you want more don't forget to join the Strategy for Creatives Facebook group, or you can follow me on Instagram @strategybysasha. Have a topic suggestion or a question you want to hear answered? Email me at hello@strategybysasha.com Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next week with another episode of the Strategy for

Creatives: 37:13

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